https://www.icyphoenix.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4601
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Sascha833
Tue 26 Aug, 2008 21:06

Upgrade To PhpBB3
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Would it be not better to upgrade to phpBB3 now?
I know in your FAq stands no^^
But 2009 the phpBB2 support and Developent will be stoppt so there no security fixes nothing and whats then?
I think its better now then in a few months:D


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Lopalong
Wed 27 Aug, 2008 00:29

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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My question is: Why should Icy Phoenix rely on phpBB for security fixes or support?

Surely it can be maintained independant of phpBB. ;)


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Sascha833
Wed 27 Aug, 2008 08:34

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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[quote user="Lopalong" post="31019"]My question is: Why should Icy Phoenix rely on phpBB for security fixes or support?

Surely it can be maintained independant of phpBB. ;)[/quote]
Yes but wouldnt it be easyer if the developer could concentrate on the feature develoment and not on the securtity? I mean i know no reason why they should not update, but if there some reasons for MG ... its ok


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Lopalong
Wed 27 Aug, 2008 10:57

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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I understand what you are saying - It's time to move on, to tomorrow's code and not continue to patch yesterday's code;  because eventually it will come to an end anyway, when more and more phpBB3 MODS become available. :mricy:

Even now, there are pre-modded versions of phpBB3 available, and I feel that loyalty to any forum software is only as good as its MODS and templates.

Luca, probably has other ideas. ;)


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Mighty Gorgon
Thu 28 Aug, 2008 15:34

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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[quote user="Lopalong" post="31019"]My question is: Why should Icy Phoenix rely on phpBB for security fixes or support?

Surely it can be maintained independant of phpBB. ;)[/quote]
First of all I quote this.

[quote user="Sascha833" post="31020"]Yes but wouldnt it be easyer if the developer could concentrate on the feature develoment and not on the securtity? I mean i know no reason why they should not update, but if there some reasons for MG ... its ok[/quote]
Regarding this I think you are missing a key point.

The major source of security issues in a project comes from external mods. All the past security issues in phpBB XS and Icy Phoenix was related to some mods coded non properly... so even if phpBB support will continue you are not assured that a modded phpBB 2 board is secure. The same stands for phpBB 3. You can have the latest release installed... but it is enough to have one "badly" coded mod to expose the whole site to security issue.

As I said several time, Icy Phoenix is not a premodded. And it is not relying on standard phpBB 2. Try to compare Icy Phoenix files with original phpBB 2 files... make some tests with common files. And compare as well the mods. You will be surprised how much of that code has been changed or recoded from scratch. That is because Icy Phoenix has many new features: most of them coded from scratch, others ported by "recoded" mods, and finally others ported from phpBB 3.

What I'm trying to say is that if you decide to use Icy Phoenix is because you trust the team here, and you like the feature Icy Phoenix has. If you don't trust the team, and you fear that your site is exposed to security issues just because some old core code is still phpBB 2... well... then it is better to install something else.

It is not a matter of competition: as I stated several time Icy Phoenix is an amatorial project, I'm not a professional, and the Team here is neither vaguely as expert as phpBB Team is. So if you like this project, the best thing you can do is using it and trying to help us in the development.

Porting Icy Phoenix to phpBB 3 right now wouldn't make it more secure than it currently is, not because of phpBB 3, but because of the extra features.


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novice programmer
Thu 28 Aug, 2008 16:27

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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And the user has to mind also that when he/she starts the conversion, it is very difficult to be rolled back.


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Lopalong
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 02:18

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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I look at it this way.

phpBB2* has been hacked and fixed to the point where it now has to one of the most stable and securest platforms to build on. ;)

Nothing will ever be perfect, and it's ironic that in part we have to thank the hackers for finding the holes that the programmers needed to tighten up.  :mricy: 

[i][b]So long as they don't hack yours or my boards.[/b][/i]

And I agree with Luca - - Mods are a problem with opening up possible exploits.  :shock:


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Sascha833
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 12:08

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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[quote user="Mighty Gorgon" post="31065"]
Regarding this I think you are missing a key point.

The major source of security issues in a project comes from external mods. All the past security issues in phpBB XS and Icy Phoenix was related to some mods coded non properly... so even if phpBB support will continue you are not assured that a modded phpBB 2 board is secure. The same stands for phpBB 3. You can have the latest release installed... but it is enough to have one "badly" coded mod to expose the whole site to security issue.

As I said several time, Icy Phoenix is not a premodded. And it is not relying on standard phpBB 2. Try to compare Icy Phoenix files with original phpBB 2 files... make some tests with common files. And compare as well the mods. You will be surprised how much of that code has been changed or recoded from scratch. That is because Icy Phoenix has many new features: most of them coded from scratch, others ported by "recoded" mods, and finally others ported from phpBB 3.

What I'm trying to say is that if you decide to use Icy Phoenix is because you trust the team here, and you like the feature Icy Phoenix has. If you don't trust the team, and you fear that your site is exposed to security issues just because some old core code is still phpBB 2... well... then it is better to install something else.

It is not a matter of competition: as I stated several time Icy Phoenix is an amatorial project, I'm not a professional, and the Team here is neither vaguely as expert as phpBB Team is. So if you like this project, the best thing you can do is using it and trying to help us in the development.

Porting Icy Phoenix to phpBB 3 right now wouldn't make it more secure than it currently is, not because of phpBB 3, but because of the extra features.[/quote]

 :shock: i never said that i dont trust the team and i respekt your hard work believe me. I only started an diskusion why not upgrade and you told me why. And it was my mistake because i thought the phpbb2 borad is only integrated and the code is not changed much, but the files realy different to the "original" phpbb2 files becouse you changed or wrote so much code on your own.


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Mighty Gorgon
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 21:34

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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[quote user="Sascha833" post="31172"] :shock: i never said that i dont trust the team and i respekt your hard work believe me. I only started an diskusion why not upgrade and you told me why. And it was my mistake because i thought the phpbb2 borad is only integrated and the code is not changed much, but the files realy different to the "original" phpbb2 files becouse you changed or wrote so much code on your own.[/quote]
In fact I have never thought that you don't trust the team... I have just said that "IF you don't..." then there is no point in using Icy Phoenix.

I can't pretend that you have to trust us: I am the first saying that this project is an hobby... but what I can assure is that a security issue is found I will do my best to fix it as soon as possible, just like I did in the past.

So to be back on the point... I cannot assure that Icy Phoenix is flawless (because I know it isn't :P ) but I can assure that we are doing our best.

Maybe our best it's not enough for you or for other users... but it's up to you. :wink:

I am not in competition with anyone, and I won't be offended if you or someone else will use phpBB 3 because it is more secure... I can say that for sure (and as you can see I participate actively in phpbb.com community). But the point is that Icy Phoenix is a different thing from phpBB 2 now even if some core functions are in common. So it's up to the final user to understand what he really need. :wink:

Got my point now?


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Sascha833
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 22:20

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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Yes i understand what you mean:)


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DWho
Sun 31 Aug, 2008 11:34

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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I would just like to thank you for the reassuring comments regarding icy... I have a board (as you know) that I thought would be needed to upgrade to phpBB3 eventually...

I misunderstood that icy can go on its own... which to me is fantastic.... 

So thank you for your time and effort..

 :mryellow:  :mryellow:


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Mighty Gorgon
Wed 03 Sep, 2008 12:03

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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[quote user="DWho" post="31287"]I misunderstood that icy can go on its own... which to me is fantastic.... [/quote]
Yes, I'll do my best. :wink:

SVN is the live example that Icy Phoenix is improving day by day. You can see how the code is changing almost in real time as soon as I commit the changes in SVN. :wink:


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DWho
Wed 03 Sep, 2008 14:52

Re: Upgrade To PhpBB3
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will have a look at the svn used to to use it a few years ago... but have forgotten how it works...

So will take a time out and look intio it all...

 :mryellow:  :mryellow:


